克里斯·威廉姆森：一个人越把自己当回事，就越难快乐。你是怎么学会不把自己看得太重的？
CHRIS WILLIAMSON: The more seriously you take yourself, the unhappier you’re going to be. You learned how to take yourself less seriously?
纳瓦尔·拉维坎特：名声在这方面没什么帮助，因为这正是名声的陷阱之一。大家总是议论你，对你有固定的看法，你慢慢就开始相信那些看法，然后你就把自己当成那样了，这反而限制了你的行动。你会怕出丑，不敢再尝试新东西。就说我吧，要是明天宣布自己要去当霹雳舞演员，肯定会被人指指点点、嘲笑半天。
NAVAL RAVIKANT: Well, fame doesn’t help on that one, because that is one of the traps of fame. People are always talking about you, they have a certain view of you, and you start believing that, and then you take yourself seriously, and then that limits your own actions. You can’t look like a fool anymore, you can’t do new things anymore. If tomorrow I announce I’m a breakdancer, right, that’s going to be met with a lot of scorn and ridicule.
克里斯·威廉姆森：你要是真敢跨这一步，我绝对挺你 ^_^
CHRIS WILLIAMSON: I’d back you if you want to make that pivot.
纳瓦尔·拉维坎特：是啊，事实上如果我想当霹雳舞者，我早就去跳了。就像我现在重新创业，又是一次从 0 到 1、白手起家，那就干呗，再拼一次。我没想着去融一大笔风投，也没想着退休养老，就是想做出一款产品，看着它从无到有。
NAVAL RAVIKANT: Yeah, the truth is if I want to be a breakdancer, I’d be breakdancing, but you know, like I’m starting a new company, zero to one again, from scratch, let’s do it, you know, one more time, and not just going and raising a big VC fund or retiring or what have you, but that’s because I want to build the product, I want to see it exist.
所以我觉得，人得不停逼自己，也得不停提醒自己：说到底，你还是那个 9 岁的自己，内心深处依旧是个孩子，对世界还保有好奇，骨子里的喜好和渴望从来没变，只是多了一层成年人的体面外壳而已。有了孩子之后会有个很直观的感受：你会发现，孩子和自己在性格、认知、能力上的距离，其实特别近。我看着 8 岁的儿子，常常会感慨：他现在的认知和处世的智慧，怕是已经有我的六七成甚至八成了。而且他活得更自在、更随性，某些方面比我还聪明，我俩之间的差距，用不了多久他就能追上(~~说的太多了，我也有这种感受~~)。这么一想就会明白，那些所谓的 “我比别人厉害”“我是个了不起的人”，全都是错觉，只是自己的执念罢了。
So I think that you constantly just have to force yourself, have to remind yourself. Look, deep down, you’re still the same Chris you were when you were nine years old. Deep down, you’re still a kid, you know, you’re still curious about the world, you still have a lot of the same predilections and desires at once, you’ve got a nice veneer on it. But one of the nice things when you have kids is you realize how much closer they are to you in personality and knowledge and know how. Like I look at my son who’s eight and I just notice like wow he probably has sixty to eighty percent of my knowledge and development wisdom and he has a lot more freedom and he has a lot more spontaneity, in some ways he’s smarter, and there’s not a big gap here left to close. This kid’s going to be done very soon, caught up to me, and so to the extent that I think I know better or that I’m somewhere or that I’m someone, it’s just an illusion, it’s just a belief.
克里斯·威廉姆森：这和“太把自己当回事”之间有什么联系？
CHRIS WILLIAMSON: What’s the lineage between that and taking yourself too seriously?
纳瓦尔·拉维坎特：之所以别把自己当回事，是因为根本没什么值得你端着的。一旦太把自己当回事，就会陷入自我设限的陷阱，把自己的言行、人生的可能都框在小圈子里，最终失去自由、丢了随性，也离快乐越来越远。说到底，核心就一句话：别总盯着自己那点事不放。
NAVAL RAVIKANT: I shouldn’t take myself too seriously because there’s nothing here to take that seriously, and if I take myself too seriously then I’m going to get trapped, I’m going to circumscribe myself again into a limited set of behaviors and outcomes that keep me from being free, keep me from being spontaneous, keep me from being happy. So it just goes back to, you know, don’t think about yourself too much.
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